what american movies can be. that they can be truly great. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for watching on this snow wee evening in the northeast. my voice is gone, but i'm going to power through it. tonight's lead, change on guns. today, we learned that the brother of victoria soto, the sandyhook teacher who died a hero trying to protect u her stunts will be a guest of the president for the state of the union. it's part of a growing movement of lawmakers inviting victims of gun violence to the speech. putting the issue front and center before the american public. >> i received a letter from

newtown, from sandy point elementary school. and she and her mother will be coming as my guest on tuesday. >> my guest is a woman by the name of carol pryce who lost her son to gun violence, many years ago. >> and, tomorrow, michelle obama will attend the funeral of hidaya pendleton, the 15-year-old honor student who was shot and killed last month in chicago. change is hatching. it's real. today, former president clinton urged democrats to act. >> it's important to take some action now that it is posz sibl on the issue of gun violence. i see this whole gun issue as an opportunity, not a toxic land mine. >> and now, in the senate, two democrats and two republicans are joining forces nearing a

deal on background checks that could be the blueprint for a new law. next tuesday, all eyes will be on the president in his state of the yuchbon. but our hearts will be with those victims of gun violence in the hall and around the country. joining me now, msnbc's chris hayes and melissa harris perry. melissa, you ever have a voice problem? >> not only that, i did two hours. i see you and i are both control freaks and will not give up the show even if we can't talk. >> my preacher voice is on. listen, some people thought this unissue would go away. but, instead, it's like getting a new kind of momentum. >> i think that's both the sad and the glad about this story. part of the reason it keeps getting new momentum is because flr more horrifying stories. in a certain way, the tragic death of hadiya peterson was the

crucial moment in the news cycle. it is appalling to say it that way, and there were deaths all along. but her innocence, her connection to the inauguration having just been there and the fact that she was in a anti-gang public service announcement, all of those things -- >> honor student. >> yep. make her, again, the kind of victim that will turn our attention to what it means to have the guns in our communities that we currently have. >> you know, chris, i have cleo cowley who recollects is the mother of hidaya on the show. i think it's the only tv show that she did. watch this. >> she had asked for it being an adult. but she was just 15. i used to talk to her about being some of the best years of your life. get in there and just enjoy them. you're going to make a difference. she was just special. i want there to be an awareness. >> she wanted it to be an awareness.

and, now, the first lady coming to the funeral tomorrow will fulfill that. >> yeah, i think what melissa said is absolutely true. i think that what's fascinating to is that this is something that quietly happens, and it doesn't quietly happen to the people it happens to, but from the perspective of the national news cycle, it quietly happens day after day. >> with over 500 in chicago, there was almost a media blackout. >> i think newtown, it was newtown on top of gabb gabby giffords, on top of aurora that broke something in the american spirit. i mean, there was something about it and the moment of it it was so horrible. and then since then, it has now attuned us to what is happening day after day. and what i think is fascinating about this is even the national review this week, conservative magazine, their cover story is about gun violence in chicago. now, they are making an argument

totally different, but the point is they are looking at it. and that, to me, is the big change is that we are talking about it, thinking about it and every headline that crosses the wires, it used to be buried, about someone dying from gun violence is now front and center. >> but there are still deaths in chicago, melissa, even since hidaya. >> and there will continue to be. there are deaths related quite clearly to policy. this is, in part, to chris' point about now we have the media attention and once the attention comes, then you're going to get the so called both sides of the story. different natures of blame. but the fact is, indiana and the availability of guns in indiana, mississippi, and the availability of guns in mississippi. >> 200 miles outside of chicago. >> that's right. it is just crossing that border, picking up the guns legally, driving back into the city of chicago. these are real policies that are taking the lives of our children. >> the obama family has taken

this very personally, the first lady going tomorrow. the president teared up after newtown. watch this. >> the majority of those who died today were children. beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. >> when you look at how they're in this, can they translate this to law? >> well, i think they can translate it to law. i don't think they're going to get everything that was in the package the president presented. but i think a few things that have happened are key. one, the kind of bipartisan work with the background checks. the loop loel that it has a justification is essentially an impossible justification to give to your average voter. if the idea is we should have a

background check for guns and we have that in policy but there's a certain carve out, people who get around it, it's really hard to make the case that this carve out should exist. that's at their weakest, rhetorically. >> this is, in fact, where most of the guns are being sold, right? and particularly the kinds of guns that we're looking at here. i mean, folks are, in fact, buying them at these gun shows. that's simply the easiest, most straight forward place. and for law-abiding citizens, also. >> and i think the other part of this is that the nra's power had -- the nra was caught in this kind of virtuous circle for itself, in which its projection of power equalled real power. and the real power fed the perception of its power. and now that's been punctured. it really has. people wake up in the morning and there's stilt members of congress and it's not the on slaugt they thought. and tha is a huge change in the politics of the issue. >> when you look at the

president as proposed, universal background checks, stricter penalties for gun trafficking, how much of that is realistically possible? >> i think at this moment, we've seen real bipartisan support for background checks. and i think we've seen probably some support around assault weapons ban that we might likely get. i've got to tell you, i think on the high magazines, the high-capacity magazines strikes me the most challenging not because of the common sense policy nature of it, but because there's a lot of income to be earned by some fairly powerful groups around those high-capacity magazines. >> i also think -- detect one note of some dissent. i do think we should subject any

expansion of federal criminal law to a pretty tight degree of investigation because expansions of crimes being made federal have had the effect over the last 10 or 20 years of falling most heavily among people of color, among people without resources and i do worry about what the cost and benefits of increasing criminal penalties in this area are. >> yet, the head of the nra, david keen, he said in an interview today, pete, keen, predicted failure on all congressional measures related to guns, including expanded background checks. he said we're not getting anything. >> that is not accurate. at this point, the american people, even in conservative districts, even in districts that are strong second amendment supporting districts have an expectation to do something. part of the challenge that chris is pointing out here, sometimes when we get excited about doing something, the something that we

do ends up encroaching on the very people we're trying to protect the most. we saw this post-9/1. he's wrong that nothing will happen. right now, it's too expensive as a matter of electoral reality. >> and the nra could have taken the approach the financial industry with dodd-frank. of course we support reform. and then behind closed doors, they tried to gut it. they have now tried to establish themselves to further establishing people's minds that they are a paper tiger and they are not the force that people thought they were. >> whablt moderate, southern democrats? >> who's that? mary andrews? there's like one. >> i mean, there are many that, on a state level, that come from states that they can't be too progressive. >> i think that's right. but, again, i think there's enough support. take mary landru kochling out of

louisiana. she, undoubtedly, a blue dog democrat. she's in a conservative state and she's got to be returned by coalition. but in new orleans, gun violence is so bad -- >> yeah -- >> that the people of new orleans who are her base, so she's got to build a broader coalition, but her base in the city of new orleans is a base that is going to require her to vote for something around gun control. troll. she can't sort of walk out of there and say oh, no, i'm only interested in my loyal part of my constituency. she's going to have to do something. >> the politics of it will be who is going to go after who in the midterm elections. does the nra have enough juice left to really threaten people in your opinion, chris? >> well, they do have -- yes. do they have juice to threaten people? absolutely. i mean, we had a freshman member of congress from around duluth, minnesota, who talked about wayne lapierre in his district with hundreds of thousandings of

dollars coming in. so, yes, can they threaten numbers of congress. but, again, there's a gap between perception and reality here. i think -- yes, they can make life difficult for members of commerce. absolutely no question. >> it means we'll have to mack life make life difficult from the other side. chris and melissa, thanks for your time tonight. have a great weekend with all of this snow in the northeast. but you can catch "up" with chris saturday morning and sunday mornings at 8:00 a.m. followed by melissa harris perry at 10:00 a.m. stay with us.

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you know, in new york city, right now, it's fashion week. are you aware that it's fashion week? i was stunned because of fashion week, republican party. did you realize this? republicans have their own line of clothing. who knew that? did you know that? i didn't. the problem is, it keeps coming apart at the seams. >> the gop coming apart at the seams, all right. but there is one thing that's uniting them all. they're all turning on karl rove. moderate republican john huntsman says i think rove is a kind of yesterday's ball game. today, donald trump continued his twitter war calling rove incompetent. and one tea party is launching their own rival super pac to

oppose rove. i guess the architect doesn't like seeing his house of cards collapse. suddenly, he's playing nice with the tea party. >> we've spent over $30 million on behalf of tea party senate candidates and over $25 million for tea party house candidates. 2.9 for rubio -- >> i believe you. any time you hold up your little sheet -- >> look, we gave more money, spent more money on behalf of these tar party candidates than any group in america. >> rove will have trouble dancing his way out of this one. and, as we've seen, his moves leaves a lot to be desired. >> tell me, what is your name? ♪ he's shooting quail ♪ look at him jumping up and down and ready to hop ♪ . >> joining me now is wayne

slater and he's co-author of "bush's brain" how karl rove made george w. bush presidential. wayne, have republicans stopped being afraid of karl rove? >> boy, you see some indication of that with various tea party elements with christian conservatives and otheringss wh think others have been afraid to say very much about him because he was the king of the money with all of the power and for eight years and president of the white house, i think they've seen some of the limits of carl. so you begin to see this kind of criticism. but i really, when you see people like john huntsman and christian conservatives and tea party activists and columnists and so forth on the far right who think they've been used by carl over the years and have gotten belittled as a result of it now criticizing it, i think they do so at their own peril.

karl has been down after the re-election of george bush which was a disaster of the democratic party, if karl can hold on to the millionaires and billionaires, at least some of them, beginning here in texas, then he's not finished. >> well, mark lever, the radio host, he says karl rove's group will only energize the far right base even more. listen to this. >> i think karl rove's name, i think his organization are poison in conservative and republican circles in many respects. bring it on, karl, baby. bring it on dough boy, bring on your little white board. we're ready. >> wow. wow. what do you think? >> yeah, i mean, look. that's a perfect example of a constituency on the right, in this case, representing really tea party activists who see rove u bush before him, who they

fundamentally now see as a big-spending republican that many of these conservatives on the far right of the republican party don't like. and they see rove now as emphasizing something he always has. and that's electability over principle, at least in their mind. and so they see him begin to lose. and that meltdown on election night last november in which he showed himself to be not a very good pun dent and i think for the first time they now see that it's time we look behind the curtain in awes. >> let me ask you something that was interesting. his pac started an ad campaign against the actress, arable slee judd. and she hasn't even announced yet whether she's running against mitch mcconnell. and he defended the move last night. watch this. >> poor ashley judd.

come on now, you're making fun of her -- >> but we're making fun of her by using her comments. she's not going to be able to wait until the screen writers from california and the producers can, you know, make her look good and prepare the ads and give her lots of lines to memorize so that she can handle these things. >> why is he going after ashley judd when she hasn't even announced? >> this is amazing. and it really is. people might want to make fun of this, but what it really is an indication of, when he tries to make fun of her, dismiss her, talk about the screen writers, they're going to write lines for her, karl recognizes that ashley judd is a potentially significant figure which if she runs in kentucky, she could indeed win. polls, and it's kind of early, indicate that she would do well if she runs in kentucky against mcconnell. mckonld is the perfect kind of

establishment candidate that karl rove cannot lose and the establishment win in the party must not lose. and so if i'm ashley judd, i am pleased to see that the great ark tekt, bush's brain, the guy who maybe some people will make fun of for going after ashley recognizes she's a real tlet. >> wow, that seems to me like the mighty have fallen. when you go from going after president obama to now having the fight with ashley judd, it's quite a fall. william slater, thanks for coming on the show tonight. have a great weekend. >> you, too. >> ahead, president obama's plan to use that progressive pulpit in the state of the union. i'm sipping my tea and honey. stay with us. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year.

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>> whereas you can see, it's already snowing heavily. we've got at least three inches on the ground and counting. le me show you around the whole region today. you mentioned fife states of emergency here. some 25 million people that will be impacted by these blizzard warnings here, as the teeth of this thing really comes in over night. it's new york, it's connecticut, rhode island, massachusetts, maine, new hampshire, vermont, all of these states getting absolutely hammered right now. the good news is there was a lot of preparation. the bad news is there were cases where we ran out of gas. we ran out of supplies on the shelves. where people wanted to get food and batteries and what not actually weren't allowed to do so because basically, a lot of those shelves were cleared on out. the deal is the governor's goal was reached. he wanted everybody off the roads at noontime today.

and such a rare sight to see the massachusetts turnpike at 4:00-6:00 p.m. pretty much void of cars. this is a road that is packed in both directions. that was not the case tonight. just one or two emergency vehicles is just about all we can find. the worst is not over. we've got three now and we're going to have 25-30 inches in the boston area. >> wow. jim, thanks for your time. be safe. we'll be right back. hey, it's sara. i'm going pro.

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time for "politics nation" pop quiz. who's the last person who should talk about president obama's brand? this guy. rnc chairman reince pribus who is leading the gnc into its darkest days yet. >> i think over time, the obama brand, over the next four years, the reality of what the truth is going to be under his signature program, which was obama care, is going to go down in flames and people aren't going to like it. >> the obama brand is going down in flames? because of obama care? maybe the gop governor should get on board with your talking points. six republican governors are using the law to get more people

insured through medicaid. so where are those frames, mr. preibus? and you think we'll take branding advice from someone who keeps clint eastwood's empty chair in his office? >> when i realized he was talking to the chair and the te teleprompter's were off, i told my wife and a couple other folks that were around me, get that chair. >> did you the we let you pretend democrats are the ones that can't sell their policies? nice try, but we gotchya. preparation h offers the most maximum strength solutions for all hemorrhoid symptoms. from the brand doctors recommend most. preparation h. don't stand for hemorrhoids. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen.

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it's the driving theme of the president's second term. we'll hear more of that in four days when the president delivers his state of the union. it will be a continuation of the progressive agenda he outlined in his inaugural speech. the speech will address gun control, immigration reform, education and climate change. but the key focus is expected to be on the economy and job creation. and that vision turns right to action. the day after the speech, the president will go on the road to sell his agenda to trips to ashville, north carolina and atlanta. thanks for being here tonight. >> thank you, rev. >> feel better, reverend. >> i will. i will. let me ask you, e.j., how do you expect the state of the union to be different from his other state of the union speeches?

>> well, i think this would be really deferent because let's think back. in 2009, he was dealing with an economic crisis that was handed him. in 2010, he was em battled on health care. in 2011, the democrats had just been shellacked and he had to dig out from that. this is a real opportunity for an obama strengthened by an election victory to lay out where he wants the country to duo. and i think -- and when you said in the intro, when you talked about job creation in the economy, i think it's really important that he shift the focus of washington. i think the country's focus has already shifted away from analyst budget battles and toward the job of putting people back to work and creating shared economic growth. i think we're going to hear something strong from him about that. we just got to get out of these fake, contrived crises. >> angela, when you're doing the state of the union and you know

you worked the hill, you're not only talking to the people there, you're talking to millions of americans. don't americans want to hear about jobs? >> i think you're absolutely right, rev. they want to hear the president lay out a blueprint. the state of the union is an opportunity for president obama to talk about not only his legacy goals, but what direction america needs to take. when we look at the last congress and the fact that it was the least productive congress in american history, a lot of people say look, we've got jobs, we've got immigration reform, we've got gun control and we need you all to get on the same page with the rest of the country. >> e.j., at the democratic retreat, former president bill clinton, he said the politics americans want are in line with this president's agenda. watch this.

>> i think the last election was an election where america chose an inclusive. now that you've won this race in large measure on what the american people did not want, we had to create a future that they do want. >> is that what the president can build on in his state of the union on tuesday night? >> i think that's exactly right. what president clinton said. it was very clear that obama created a referendum asking the country to rejekct a series of republican ideas, in particular that government has no role to play in building our future and that tax cuts are always, always, always wrong. >> i t i think that the jobs for progressives is that middle

income and low income people have really been stuck in a spiral, in some ways, for 30 years. and their task is to say we can move in a different direction. we can include growth that has not only the wealthy people, people in the middle and at the bottom of the economy. i hope he is not at all shy about doing a little bit of that bill clinton thing and laying out a bunch of specific programs. all of those speeches were very specific that got panned by pundait pundits, but they were very popular with people because they said here is where i want to move the country. >> you know, angela, he also can be specific about what we're facing. the sequester. if the sequester goes in to effect, if it goes through 10%, faa would be furloughed, usda food inspectors would be furloughed, 25% coast guard

operations would be cut, sup lemtal nutrition plans for 600,000 women and children would be cancelled. i mean, he can talk about the real impact of those that are trying to not meet him and, in some common ground, and force us into an unnecessary sequester. >> i think that's absolutely right as well. when you look at the fiscal cliff, it's most definitely been crisis g cris crisis governance. i think it's a way that makes really good common sense. the american people are clearly on his side on this. he can definitely win, not only the future, like the theme of the speech was last time, but, really, he can win with being a really common sense -- taking a common sense approach to political governance. even though the 39 is not campaigning, he's not on the ballot this yeerp, he's

certainly campaigning for votes on the house and the senate floor. and he's campaigning for the support and the influence ofts american people. he definitely needs them on his side and he has a great opportunity on tuesday to lay out a framework. >> let me ask you this, e.j. a lot of gun violence, family victims, will be there. will this be a very awkward problem? an awkward situation? for your pro-gun right wingers, when the president is laying out his agenda and you have victim family members sitting there and the right wing usually sits there without applauding, without responding, how will they be affected by having victim family members sitting there watching their reactions. >> i sure hope it will be an awkward moment for them. and then i hope it turns, for a few of them, into a conversion moment.

the nra has gone out great guns, if i can use that phrase, to try to stop everything, including universal background checks, which are very popular. they're losing that fight. a lot of people who have a ratings for the nra are saying we can vote for something like this. so i think the tide has turned in a substantial way. there's still a ways to go. still going to be hard to get an assault weapons ban. but i think people who believe in sane gun laws really are going to win some things this year and i think very soon. >> all right. i'm going to leave it there. e.j., angela, thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend. >> still ahead, growing up mandella. my interview with the great man's granddaughters. that's next. at 1:45, the aflac duck was brought in

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>> the tea party is a dynamic force for good in our national conversation. >> hey, congresswoman? wrong camera. look over here. then came the ever-elegant pizza man. herman cain. >> with all due respect, mr. president, some of us are not stupid. the state of the union is not good. >> so here comes senator rand paul. want could possibly go wrong? >> i've always preferred the cream part of an oreo. >> that's crazy, the cookie is the best part. >> cookie. >> cream. >> cookie. >> cream.

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there's mr. mandella. mr. nelson mandella a free man taking his first steps into a new south africa. his first public appearance in nearly three decades. 72 years old. walking strongly, step by step further into freedom.

>> 23 years ago, south african freedom fighter nelson mandella walked out of prison and into the arms of a joyous nation. he had been jailed for 27 years. for demanding equal rights of black people of south afterri can. he later became the country's first black president. now, 94 years old, nelson mandella has mostly retired from public life. the next generation of mandellas are now in the spotlight. his granddaughters are about to launch their own tv reality show, being mandella. it focuses on the life of south africa's most prom nent family. i spoke to them yesterday before i lost my voice.

>> joining me now, nelson mandella's granddaughters. did i say it right? i tell you correct me because i mess up easy names. i'm glad to have you with us tonight. >> thank you very much for having us. >> now, first of all, we know you're coming out with the reality show that will air sunday. the mandellas. and i saw a picture of your grandfather, nelson mandella, with you and then i saw a recent one with your son bho is one years old. and the idea was to have the youngest mandella with the oldest mandella? >> yes, we were coming here, so we decided to take a picture of the youngest person in the family and the oldest person in the family so we can show the world that our grandfather is okay. >> how is he? we keep getting reports. we're very concerned about him. >> he's very, very well and this's why we took that picture to show the world he's very well. he's happy. he's surrounded by the children, his grandchildren, and he's in

really, realitily good spirits. >> now, part of the reality show would be how you're dealing with being such an icon's granddaughters. how have you had to deal with that? i know it wasn't as difficult as nelson mandella? >> there have been a lot of personal struggles we've had to go through growing up under this family name. i think we come from such strong iconic grandparents and families. so we've learned a lot. it's put us through a lot. but we've grown into very strong, independent women who are, you know, carving their own careers, you know, we're going into business, we're entrepreneurs, we showcase that on the show that you'll see a lot of that on the show. but i think, you know, it does come with a lot of responsibility, this name. so we're very aware of that. and we're findful of the fact

that people look at this name with such admiration. and they put us on this pedestal. i know people have this you're doing a reality show, it's not going to tarnish the name in anyway. our grandparents have said to us many times, this name belongs to you, you choose and you decide how you want to take this name forward. so, you know, as long as you treat it with respect and integrity which is very important to our grandparents and we feel that we'll guard the name with very much, you know, respected and integrity. >> i saw a clip i'm going to play on the show. you actually go to robins island where your grandfather was released in 1990, 23 years ago this weekend. let me show this clip.

>> now, you're going to the actual cell and building that he was held at for 27 years. that must have been emotional for you. >> it was extremely emotional for us. we didn't know what to expect. we had never been there before. we didn't want to go for so many years. it's a painful history in our lives, personal history in our lives. so to actually see what my grandfather went through and how he lived was just mind boggling. we were in there for about ten minutes. and to think that my grandfather spent 18 years of his life in that small, confined spags. . >> 18 of the 27 years was in that little cell? >> yes. >> did he ever talk about it with you?

>> no, we haven't had a chance to talk to him about those times in his life because, you know, we didn't really have him for long. he came out of jail, he wentd, he was president of the country, he formed the foundation. we really haven't had that much time with him. now that he's older, we get to spend more time with him. when we're with him, it's more about family history, it's about how he grew up. it's what he wants us to remember, what he wants us to pass down to our children. we don't sit there and talk about his political life in prison. >> so family is very important to the man derksdellas which is you have to hold up the name even during a reality show? >> correct. and the show is very much a family show. you get to see many extended family members. our grandfather won't be directly on the show, but we'll make a lot of reference to him because he's very much the patriarch of the family. so, yeah, we're very close knit. we're very tight. and we influence each other in a lot of ways.

we've kind of had to keep him very close because we are so public. sometimes, that can be very difficult to deal with. >> being public and making it difficult, mean you really only understand each other and you kind of protect each other. >> we have to. it's kind of hard. most people don't understand what it's like to be part of this family. we really can't trust a lot of people. you don't know what people's motives have. so we are very, very close. it's literally just us. we've just always been that way. >> the emotions you must feel, though, when you hear people with the praise for your grandfather and then to go and look at that little cell, it must be emotional to think about how your grandfather, whose blood is in your body, helped to liberate a whole country and open up new possibilities, not only for you, but for young

people all over the world. especially in south africa. >> which is one of the reasons why we actually wanted to do -- convince us to do the show. >> and the fact that we're young women and we're afforded many opportunities because of what our grandparents faulgt for. we come from a very diverse history. there's so many things that happened in our country. we have a beautiful country and we celebrate that. and we want to showcase that to the world. >> let me show one more clip of the show so people can get a sense of what we're going to see starting sunday. >> it's very, very tough being part of this family because you're always judged and you're always compare today this world icon, this perfect man. he is larger than life now. there's statues built after him. he's just been honored to have his face on the currency of south africa.

>> i'm very honored that i say i come from this family that has achieved so much and given so much. people look at him with this admiration and respect. >> and that is hard to convince people of how that feels, but to you, he's grandpa. to us, he's this icon. and your mother, your mother visited my national network -- your grandmother, winnie mandella came to visit us. tell her a lot of people are going to be watching sunday night to see what the next generation of mandellas do. i thank you for coming and talking to us. >> and being mandella premiers sunday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern. on cosi tv. tomorrow, the first lady

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we end tonight with what's really at the heart of the gun debate. the victims of violence. more than 1600 people have been shot and killed in the 56 days since the newtown tragedy. 28 of those deaths were children under the age of 12. tomorrow, the first lady will be attending the funeral of 15-year-old hadiya penldleton. she was shot and killed in chicago just a week after participating in the festivities of the president's inauguration. this fight for gun safety is not about politics it's about hadiya and the countless other victims of gun violence in this country. that's why we must stand up for our children.